I've been thinking

[starrylizard]

Scary I know. :P

There's all these people talking about proper commenting/feedbacking etiquette, talk of friending/defriending and that worry about being rude to defriend, people who think it's only fair to ask before friending, others saying you should ask if you want to be friended back, people actually not friending people on the basis of that person asking permission to friend and taking that as begging to be friended back, people writing meta on proper feedback protocol... O_o

Sometimes I just gack at everyone, step back and say "Is this for real? Chill out people!"

I'm guilty of friending, de-friending and even of later re-friending the same people...usually based on whether their interests seem to match mine at the time, or if their journal appears to be unused at the time or on whether I have more or less time to read LJ posts one week, or if they have super long posts that I find frustrating because I have PMS that week. I didn't realise this could upset people at all. In fact I didn't think people noticed, but I realise now there is a email notifier thingy for it. Luckily most of the time, I just friend and forget about it. You're all such interesting people.

I also regularly leave feedback of the sort:

"Nice :)" or "Thank you! :D" or "Aww, cuteness, thanks :)"

Are there really people that think I'm mocking them and don't like their fic (art) when I do this? Believe me, I don't comment when that's the case. I'm generally of the 'say something nice (or at least constructive) or say nothing at all' way of thinking.

There isn't any dire need for you to comment back to my feedback if you don't want to. It's nice though, because it makes it easier for me to find your art/fic again because of the email notice I get. I won't however hunt you donwn for not replying or never comment on your stories/art again. :)

I friend randomly, friend back even more randomly. And lately I have to say some of the people I look up to and admire their fiction (or artwork) have popped up on my friends list without me even friending them first and how cool is that?! :)

I'm a multi-shipper/gen/friendship-loving kinda girl, who marvels at other people's skills. I love comments, as I'm sure other people do. I love how varied my f-list is, with gen/het/slash/artists/vidder/random non-fandom people all chatting to me willy-nilly. Don't cha'all change now. I hope I've not offended anyone at any point with my randomness.

This has been a completely random post by Starrylizard who has been reading too many references in other LJ's to meta and is utterly confused. O_o

Comments

[lark_ascends]

Nope, never offended me at all.

Hmmm, I'm thinking of doing a friends cull on my flist, cause there's a lot of people who's journals I've friended to read their fic, and then I can find their fic in other ways, and I'm not really interested in them. Plus, my flist is too big.

Actually, I think I'm going to do that now...

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Good luck with that. :P

Psst...Don't trim me. :P

[purple-cube.livejournal.com]

*giggles* I've been thinking exactly the same thing lately - I had no idea that fandom politics was so complicated.

(By the way, I'm here 'cos I went on a random friending spree yesterday and you seemed like a fun person to interact with - I liked your recs and that one post about the cricket *hangs head in embarrassment for being English*)

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Uugh! Isn't it complicated though?!! I swear the longer I'm in fandom, the more I skirt around the edges hoping to be overlooked. I'm like a deer in the headlights that just can't look away sometimes, even when I know I should. It's like oooh the shiny!

I've definitely read some of your fic, but I can't place my finger on which one/s. I remember one had Teyla in it, but looking at your journal, that just doesn't narrow it down at all. There isn't enough Teyla fic. :P

Welcome to the party. Another PoHM too! I think there are a few of you on my F-list now. And despite this post, I actually rarely defriend. *grins*

[purple-cube.livejournal.com]

Heh, one of these days I will write something that doesn't feature Teyla...and actually I remember you commenting on my Grodin fic, Solus Ipse (I only remember this because it's my favourite and it didn't get much love; it's one of the few stories of my own that I re-read occasionally).

And I've already learnt something from you - I Googled pohm because I always thought it was pom or pomm, and finally found out what it means. I think that my brain got confused with learning French at school and getting into cricket at around the same time at the age of 14, and somehow assumed that it was something to do with apples!

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Ohh I remember a Grodin one. Something about a greek god that had to keep rolling a ball up a hill. Would have to look it up again??

Hee! They just had a thing on the TV about 26 British-Australians petitioning the UN to ban the use f the word PoHM as derogatory. *giggles* The banner on the TV read "whinging POMS." They spelt it POM on the TV, but yeah "Prisoner of Her Majesty" is the origin. :P

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

I often find it interesting to read about the politics of LJ and fandom. *g* But sometimes it just makes me headdesky.

I decided quite a while ago I'd just stick by what I do and if someone gets offended... Er, oh well?

I typically 'friend' people on the basis of the Fangirl Interaction Fun Factor - and so they generally occur after I've just had a fun comment-spam with someone (*cough* :P) so it's often mutual. But later, if they defriend I'm pretty much "Hey. Sure. Whatever. Stay safe and I'll see you around."

But there are exceptions - typically with the people who I actually start to consider friends. And if they defriended me I wouldn't really be offended. But (if there were no preceding bitch-fight) I would be all "Starrylizard? Starrylizard? Where did you go?" and feel sad. (And, yes. You'd be one of them. :P)

I tend to think it's polite to say thank you to comments on fic/vids/whatev and will do that (even if it's, um, months later) but I'm not really fussed if people don't respond to me. It's their prerogative.

So. yes. I live by my own thoughts and everyone else's is up to them. Misunderstandings will happen, but isn't that life?

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

I would be all "Starrylizard? Starrylizard? Where did you go?" and feel sad. (And, yes. You'd be one of them. :P)
Aww, you're one of my "founding friends"! That is, you're one of the ones that roped me into the madness with your fun comments and crazy crack. *eyes off Rinne too* I solemnly promise if I ever defriend you, there will be a bitchfight to end all LJ bitchfights first. :P

I tend to think it's polite to say thank you to comments on fic/vids/whatever and will do that (even if it's, um, months later) but I'm not really fussed if people don't respond to me. It's their prerogative.
Yup, me too. I've seen people say the very opposite thing too though. It truly does make you headesk. Be at peace people!

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

I solemnly promise if I ever defriend you, there will be a bitchfight to end all LJ bitchfights first. :P

Good. I promise too. *nod* (What an odd promise.) And it would be such a huge LJ bitchfight, it probably crash poor LJ.

Be at peace people!

You know, pesticides are bad to ingest and all, but sometimes I think there needs to an LJ-wide spray of Zen. Zen Spray. Guaranteed to knock out all feelings of anger, hate and annoyance. Fandom will be together as one.

Of course, it'd probably wear off in a day. But hey, it'd be nice for a while. *g*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

What? Sheyla's getting along with the hard-core Sparky's? Even for one day...it's almost too hard to imagine.

Maybe we could start a zen spray campaign. It'd be like pay it forward. Make a nice comment in a random journal and leave the message "You have been sprayed by zen" with a link back to the campaign telling them to spray three more people with zen... and so on... :D

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

And the hetters and the slashers? It would be... wow.

Haha! Your brain is awesome! Spread the Love kind of day. (Where is the love?)

But I think it'd have to be a person who you weren't really connected to. And if they were on the 'other side' of fandom, so much better.

(But oh. What if it went wrong...)

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

How would it go wrong? *puzzled look*

We could make banners and stuff. "Spray someone with zen today!" :)

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Mostly that's just me being cynical with people not paying happy comments forward.

HEE! It'll be the new craze. Like... pogo sticks.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

*bounces*

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

*bounces into you*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Um should I try this? I could see if anyone is interested in playing along. I'm so not mentioning warring factions of fandom though. :P
*bounces back into you with a small "oof"*

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

I think if you're willing to, definitely. You are the kindness queen of fandom. (To me, anyway.)

That is very wise.

*bounces into wall. bounces off wall* Apparently my pogo stick is not the only pogo stick.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

You are the kindness queen of fandom.
Huh? Because of this?

I'll think about it and make a "anyone interested post" tomorrow maybe. :)

*bounces about* These pogo sticks don't work too good.
Nighty night.

[heylittleriver.livejournal.com]

Not just this. But you did they fanmail thing a while back, and you so often have a good word for people and you're always willing to help out with things (like the NCIS Ficathon and sga-inspireme) and get involved in and get other people involved in things too. (Like Days.)

Sounds like I'm buttering you up, but no, it just really occured to me.

Night!

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Hee! *preens* I don't mind buttering, though my ego just blew up. *smiles*

[mangst.livejournal.com]

As I rule, for life in general as well as L.J., just do whatever makes *you* comfortable. Because everyone has different opinions and there is no way to make everyone happy. Case in point, I had just started leaving the "nice :)" or "this was really cute!" type of feedback, because there had been a meta on fanfiction etiquette saying that writer's love feedback, no matter how short, and that if you read their work that was the least you could do. That made sense to me so I started doing that religiously. So in the attempt to be nice I have apparently been offensive. *sigh* So back to my original point, I am just going to be myself. That way if people get mad at me at least its *me* they are mad at, rather than the person I pretended to be to be polite.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me too. I'm not changing my ways, because for me as an author a comment is a comment is a comment and I have had people leave me just ":)" and I think "cool I made them smile" and leave one right back.

You are very wise and I've stopped trying to please anyone. My opinion is my opinion and people can chose to read it or not, be offended ot not. That's the way I do things these days.

This was an OMGWTF!meta? post. Seriously for every person that thinks one thing, someone will tell me the complete opposite. It's amusing and confusing at times.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I would never take those comments as mocking. Personally, I know that if I don't like a story, then I'm not going to waste my time commenting. (Unless I am truly going to leave mocking feedback, but then you will *know* it by its meanness.)

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I was like WTF? I think some people have a little bit of a complex and look at everythig through a paranoid sort of filter. Not everyone is out to get you and who cares if they are...you don't really know them; they are random people hanging out on the interweb. *shrugs*

[arlessiar.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, starrylizard, you never offended me in any way by not commenting or by writing short comments.

This whole "how and when to comment" discussion on LJ right now is weird in my opinion. I know that there are unspoken rules on LJ, one of them being that you should try to answer to comments/feedback other people leave in your LJ. I think that's a polite thing to do and hence a good unspoken rule. But:
In my opinion the key word is "should"! It cannot be the case that commenting becomes a duty or a 'must do'. LJ is supposed to be fun, it's something you do in your free time. When you have something like a standard f-list it's already hard enough to read all the interesting entries every day, if I also tried to comment on every single entry I'd spend the whole day on LJ. And that's simply not possible! I have a real life, and although I love being on LJ and am here quite often, I still have to give real life first priority. That means that I cannot answer to every entry/feedback post.

I try to comment first and foremost when my friends post stuff where I feel I have or want to say something, or when they need help/encouragement/comfort, because this is most important. I try to comment on art and fanfic too, but often I lack the time for that. I hardly have time to read all the fanfic/view all the fanart at all! Of course the author/artist doesn't know that and doesn't give a damn if it's important to me that I try to catch up with everything on my daily list. Everyone wants and probably deserves individual feedback. But still, it's not doable. So I only comment on the stuff that really impressed me. I'd love to discuss everything I see on LJ, I'd also want to give constructive criticism or helpful comments when there's something I didn't like so much. But I don't have the time, so I have to set priorities. And my friends real lives, the things that really impressed me, and stuff other people provide me with (like various downloads) are my priorities when it comes to commenting. That said, there are also things that really impress me but it's hard to say more than "Well done" or "thanks". Same when people leave a three word comment for one of my entries - I'm thankful for the acknowledgement of my entry then, but what am I supposed to write in a reply?

I plan on publishing SG fanfic myself one day. When I do, I'll be glad when people find the time to leave feedback, because it's great to hear what others think about my stuff. But I won't be disappointed if they don't comment, because fanfic should be for oneself in the first place. In the second place it's for a (random) reader's enjoyment. And when one reader finds the time to leave feedback then, then this comes in third place and is an added bonus.

So, I'm not angry or disappointed when I get no feedback or answers to my comments. I know what it means not to have the time to comment on everything! Vice versa I also expect my friends to understand that I cannot comment on everything. I appreciate feedback, I appreciate fanart and fanfic, I appreciate what some fans have to offer and share with other fans. And I can assure everyone that I read all comments and that I'm thankful for them. But sometimes I don't have time to answer, and I seriously hope that I won't lose friends just because of that. It's not ignorance or disinterest that keeps me from commenting sometimes - it's just life and its pressures.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Yup. Exactly!

One of my favourite ever dialogues on a fic I wrote went:
1. SL posted fic (I think it was fic)
2. Commenter left: :)
3. I left: :D
4. They left: :P ^_^

It says so much. I made them smile and it made me happy. Not that I want everyone to just leave me smiley faces, but I would never be offended by it.

I'm terrible at replying to rl posts. I'm like a fly on the wall of all your lives who occasionally slips in and leaves *hugs* or *smiles*, but I never feel someone is insulted by my tardiness there. It's those strangely vocal artists that can confuse me. *grins*

*hugs you, hon.*

[arlessiar.livejournal.com]

1. SL posted fic (I think it was fic)
2. Commenter left: :)
3. I left: :D
4. They left: :P ^_^

*g*

*hugs you back* :)

Talking about strange comments... :D

[lightz474.livejournal.com]

First off, OMG you have a Sheppard header!!! ♥ ♥ *drools* *eeee* It's awesome and I love the little part at the bottom where it says Protected by the Shep. XD

I haven't friended anyone in a while but when I do I always give them a heads up and see if it's okay to friend them. I haven't run into anyone freaking out on me by me asking me to friend them. I have stumbled onto people that do that annoying OMG I'm going to defriend everyone every month just to proove our lj friendship. *rolls eyes* Lol, that's the only thing that I don't like. That's when I wave bye bye to them and tell them to have a good life.

You haven't offended me with your randomness. XD You rock! I wouldn't really worry too much about the friending thing. Eventually they will get over it.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Hee! When I was first on LJ, a few nice people (who I refer to as my "founding friends" - You're one of them) friended me and introduced themselves and were very nice. Life was good.

So then, I friended a few journals of interest and introduced myself and asked if it was ok to friend. I wasn't sure of the etiquette and people had done so with me. Anyone, this one person then posted in her LJ about how it's stupid to ask permission to friend someone when all their public posts are by their very nature public and from now on she wouldn't be friending such people back unless she suddenly forgot their rampant stupidity. *blinky* I then made a special effort to leave annoyingly happy comments on all her posts for the next few months. *hums innocently*

Yes, I personally find it odd when people defriend a bunch of people and then tell people about in such a way as to make people feel they have to comment and praise the person lots and be attentive friends to be special enough to remain on the person's flist. *eyeroll*

*hugs you*
SL

[lightz474.livejournal.com]

XD How cool! You are also one of my founding friends.

Rofl, oh my she sounded quite rude. I can't believe she said that. I think that you handled it pretty well. I probably would have defriended her and then stompted off mad. ;D

I always meet at least one or two people a year who do that. I hope that I never do that. *huggles ya*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Oh and I'm glad you like my header. :)
He's looking fine in that screencap. Mcalex22 had a series of those caps and I went all *drool* too. Plus in that shot, see he left his mobile phone/walkman headphone in...oops! It disapears in the next shots. It reminded me of a security guard. The continuity guys will be cursing. :)

[lightz474.livejournal.com]

Lol, I started reading your post and then I was IMMEDIATELY drawn to the smexy Sheppard picture. XD It's definitely a good pic for a header.

Okay, I was wondering why he had that walkman headphone in his ear. I thought that maybe I had just missed a certain scene or something.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Let a thousand flowers bloom and it's too late at night for me to join the fray of meta-ranting. Although I potentially could. :-) Hey-ho, a-friending we all go.

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

*grins* Meta-ranting! I like that. I hereby declare that the offical name for what I am doing here. :D

[inkscribe.livejournal.com]

Hee hee. Lovely meta-rant, my dear. :-) I'm danged new here myself and have doubtless inadvertently ticked off people with commenting or friending or whatever, which does bother me on some levels because I generally like to treat people well and if I believe they're deserving of not-so-well treatment then I want to be rather clear about that. ;-) *g*

On a slightly different note, I nearly died laughing when I realised I mis-read one of the above comment ideas as "spaying" zen. I had visions of a very wise and stoic Zen cat, just after his appointment with the vet. *giggle*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Lovely meta-rant, my dear. :-)
Why thank you. :D

have doubtless inadvertently ticked off people with commenting or friending or whatever
Yeah it bothers me sometimes, but after a while in fandom you realise everything you say can possibly tick someone off. I figure as long as I didn't mean it that way though, then my conscience is clear.

*Sprays you with zen* Still deciding on whether to try this. Not being a BNF, I generally start such things and see them flop spectacularly. :P

[inkscribe.livejournal.com]

*nods* Yes, there is that whole thing about people needing to be responsible for their own feelings at the end of the day.

BNF? I don't know the acronym. ???

Finally -- my image of Zen spraying now? Well, the great Canadian troubadour, Leonard Cohen has studied Zen for many years. He is also known to rather enjoy drinking with his master. And rather enjoy it before performances. Red wine, I believe.

So are you spraying me with some red wine Zen? *g*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

That would probably stain. ^_^

Wanders off singing "red red wine, stay close to meeee"

[inkscribe.livejournal.com]

So now I'm going to be humming that for the next week you know, right?

That's either semi-evil, or very Zen. *g* Hee hee.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

BNF is an acronym I myself learned only about 1 1/2 years into fandom. It means big name fan (I think) and refers to someone who is a Big Cheese in a particular fandom, who is known by everyone, who mods and writes and vids and gets around and is a kind of Well Known Figure. Some people rant against BNFs. I think it's an annoying acronym but that's what it means. :-)

I look forward to your meta-rant on the matter (once you have researched it sufficiently, *g*).

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Hee! Yes I meant Big Name Fan. Sorry I forget sometimes and use acronyms. I've just noticed that I can start a fun campaign and no one will join in.

If it was a bigger/more well known person, then they can start something rather mean or stupid and it will still spread like a wild fire. That was my point. :P

I don't mind mostly. I'd not really like to have people paying that much attention to me. It would be kind of freaky.

[inkscribe.livejournal.com]

*nods sagely now that I have become edjumakated in the secret ways of fandom*

Thank you!

Now, as for this meta-rant, is that a request for me, or for Starrylizard? lol :-)